Full Transcript

George Kamide:
Welcome to Zero Hour, brought to you by SafeGuard Cyber. I'm George Kamide.
 
Ashley Stone:
I'm Ashley Stone.
 
George Kamide:
And today's guest is Jennifer Heyman, who is Vice President of Social Media and Digital at Wells Fargo. We have the great pleasure of hosting Jennifer Heyman when we were in San Francisco earlier this year obviously COVID has ended all of that, but we were lucky enough to reach her at her home in San Francisco and conduct this interview over Zoom.
 
Ashley Stone:
We love hearing her expertise. She is so knowledgeable about social and digital and the approach that she takes to customer experience is more sound and comforting in these crazy times.
 
George Kamide:
Yes, she is definitely a leader on this front and she is also a leader in the charge for marketers to consider the security implications of social media and other technologies in play. So without further ado, let's turn it over to Jennifer Heyman.
 
George Kamide:
So, welcome to the podcast, Jen Heyman, good to have you here.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Thank you so much. A pleasure to be here.
 
George Kamide:
I'll turn it over to Ashley to start.
 
Ashley Stone:
Yeah, we are so excited to have you here. We actually had the pleasure of having you join our panel on making digital transformation more than a buzzword when we were in San Francisco at the end of February. So I wanted to start off with a really light, easy question. How do you define digital transformation?
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Can we not bring the panel to the podcast? So the richness of everyone's answers, it was so interesting. I feel like I came at this from a more clinical standpoint as it relates to my personal job and my journey every day. So in my role at Wells Fargo, I really am a champion for the customer experience. So when I'm thinking about digital transformation, I'm truly thinking about that connection between customers and brands as to how the, how the actions that they take, the mindset they begin to believe in really evolves their own perception, belief, or confidence around digital, around digital connection with a brand. So I think transformation really takes its roots from both the customer side and the brand side in evolving again, how the two interact and create more lasting impressions for the future. That's how I would define it.
 
George Kamide:
Cool. And then in terms of transformation, social has truly been transformative for large financial enterprises. You know, I think it was at one point transformational, but now it seems almost required for the retail experience, everything from direct conversion, like flash sale coupon, et cetera, but, you know, financial services was slower to take that on. I think there's a larger regulatory burden naturally, but also has traditionally maintained a more formal relationship with customers rather than sort of like there's a certain vulnerability that comes with being on social and opening yourself to that. So have you seen within, I guess the vertical or within the industry of financial services something that pertains to transformation as it relates to social now, but where, where the industry might be headed, where is, where are they trying to go to in terms of fostering that customer interaction?
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So one of the things that I think marketers have talked about for so long is that whole idea of experience, what's really the experience that we're creating for the customer. And so I think as you look at digital transformation and you look at social specifically, there was a lot of effort in the early years across all brands and certainly financial service brands to try and create different experiences. I think where we sit today is it's just tougher to do that in financial. When some of the baseline of that experience for customers is an in person interaction and something you really couldn't replicate credibly or from a secure standpoint in a digital experience. Interestingly, as I think when you go through transformative events worldwide, which could be disaster, certainly could be the current COVID-19 crisis. You begin to take a look at those connections and those experiences that you have, and you may suddenly as a customer or as a brand place, less value on the construct with which it took place in the past versus the opportunity to, I need to get things done.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So where Finserve may have been held back as to trying to replicate as much of these personal experiences as they could through digital, they may now see, Hey, we've overcome a big hurdle here, which is we've gotten maybe our population over the age of 65 to willingly do transactions online. How could we now provide a Zoom call-like experience to do consultations, especially if they don't feel like they want to travel to our offices. So I think just overall the environment we live in continues to set up how you enrich experiences through digital. And I think specifically like in social and, you know, in our overall marketing connectivity, that's what we have to continue to herald with our customers in hopes of again, deepening our relationship.
 
George Kamide:
Yeah. And you just, you mentioned security there in terms of being able to secure that interaction when we were in San Francisco and I think it was after the panel, you and I were talking about the increasing importance of social media security at the time. That was the end of February. At the time in January, we had seen the large scale, our mind hack of Chorus, which is a large social media management platform used by among others, Facebook that had its Twitter account and its Instagram account hacked. And, you know, I had previously been talking to groups of marketers about security and they sort of looked at me dumbfounded when I asked if, if somebody takes over your account, who do you call literally a room of them were silent. One of them thought it should be it. Some of them, you know, a lot of the social is actually off shorted to agencies. So they don't actually have the passwords to these very important customer experience channels. But so I was intrigued that you said this was of increasing importance. So I was curious to know, how have you seen that topic either grow in priority among your peers or I just want to get the inside view of how your peers may be talking about it.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Yeah, it's a, it's a great question. And it's so funny to think, you know, here we are on the heels of the spring and full summer mindset and yet this event took place like firmly in winter and just feel like it feels like it was ages ago. So with any again, event for a security breach, I think of this magnitude, first thing brands and companies are going to do is investigate, you know, what happened to the infrastructure? So how was the security, how was the process? How are we set up? You know, it's a very sort of small, if you will, insular look at what broke. I think, again, you, that that was the guts of the initial conversation is everyone wanted to figure out what broke and are we set up appropriately to defend against that in the future? What I think is happening now is you're asking a lot more questions.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
What happened with communication and was that communication style, if as a brand we're paying a vendor to do something, was the communication style acceptable to me? Then we think of, you know, overall this breach impacted customers. So now you had a different stakeholder audience and you had to think, what would that mean to them? And that could have financial impact if you will, you know, on a brand, on a company on decisions. So I think the initial questions were very focused on how do we make sure this doesn't happen again? And how do we assess any risks that might've happened? But the go forward is on, did this occur in a business format or business continuity planning that like actually would have been acceptable to us. And if not, do we want to change how we look at security, who we involve, you know, and who we work with on that topic.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
And I think one of the biggest things that I consistently saw in people talking publicly about a hack like this was you had email accounts of major brands, the, excuse me, you had social media accounts of major brands that were linked to an email address of somebody who maybe at one point in time had been your social media associate or better yet your admin exec. And they were long since gone. So you were literally incapable of getting into an account because your hot shot millennial who ran it for you. You know, it was no longer there. So I think for a lot of brands, especially smaller brands, especially those working with agencies, just thinking of how you bring all your control features in house will be probably the greatest learning and the takeaway from this event and how folks move forward.
 
George Kamide:
Yeah, I think that's probably the legacy of social being so easily spun up back in the day that the accounts were set up and we didn't know about security flaws back then, or it wasn't top of mind. And therefore, yes, there was no integration with like maybe an active directory. So when that employee leaves, the access gets shut off, it was really just a spreadsheet kept on some shared folder. Like here are all of our passwords here have access to it. Yeah, we'll, we'll come back to that. But thank you for, for taking that on right here at the outset.
 
Ashley Stone:
And what's really great about what you're highlighting is that we experienced these events and are able to pivot quickly and take, take some learnings so that what we're doing won't have, we won't have to experience the same thing hopefully, and, and that sort of brings us to what we're experiencing in our day to day life at the time of this recording, we're all still in parenting and are dialing in from our home. So I'd love to know how has your daily routine changed?
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So great question. Probably not radically different from the same of y'alls. I think the key thing is we're just, we're working longer days and we're plugged in more, which gives us emotionally a little bit of a break that we might need in the middle of the day and solving issues. It also gives us way more ammunition. If you think about it in prioritizing issues, you know, and we don't have the distractions of commuting and childcare, even though we may certainly have different things, keeping us busy at home and different schedules to keep. I am somebody personally, who for the last few years has spent a good amount of time, about a month in the summer, living at my parents' house in suburban Chicago. And when I do that, I change my work schedule to something that looks like, you know, starting early and ending late so that I catch all time zones and that, so that I'm still available to very actively manage my team that is based out of San Francisco and is used to me being on Pacific time.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So I kind of feel like I already had this routine in place before quarantine. And I think for a number of my employees, I manage a global team. We operate different shifts, different days of the week. We're pretty close to 24/7. And we came together very quickly to say, what do we want to do? And how are we going to do it to best support our customers? So the first week, my team of eight was shrunk to my team of five. And we said, okay, we have five people and we have seven days a week. How are we going to do this? And then by the second week, when my additional three folks could join us from our global location, same question, what hours do you guys want to work? How's this going to fit in the best into your schedule? So I think some amount of flexibility is necessary, but at the end of the day, I think it's really just giving yourself time to step away from what can be very intense work, take an emotional break. You know, I often think of like our day is a mix of leisure work and education all in a very nonlinear fashion. So sometimes during the day, I just want to read about what's happening in the economic markets. You know, that's important and think you've got to take that break and simulate. You need to get exercise. Everyone's doing that. So quarantines here to stay for a little while. And so hopefully we can figure out that the best approach to really getting a measurable and meaningful work done in the midst of all the craziness.
 
George Kamide:
Yeah. And I think that's, maybe those boundaries are, what's hard, it's more difficult to mentally compartmentalize. Like this is my workout time. Cause I'm not physically in a gym I'm like in the other room from where I'm also working or, you know, the kids are running around upstairs or, you know, you've all the lines have been blurred, like in one space that can get a little bit mentally taxing. And I know for a handful of us who had had, you know, vacation plans, we are now no longer vacationing. So you've actually, if you stand back, you are now going, you're working more intensely and longer without a break, which I think is going to start to take toll pretty soon. Could you let's step back a little bit and it's interesting to take hold of the fact that social media has a management level title is now the norm, but it's important to remember that it wasn't always that way. So curious to understand anyone who's working professionally in social media, how they got there. So if you could tell us a little bit about how you got to Wells Fargo from the Midwest, that'd be, that'd be good to hear.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
I love telling stories. So this will be fun. I moved to the Bay area after finishing my MBA in Chicago with an interest in working in financial services, but in exploring different functional strengths that I had versus following say a very specific passion for a particular job or job title. I gained experience through strategy through financial analysis. I had the opportunity to work overseas and ultimately it led me to a field liaison role for a major financial service brand in which I helped to translate marketing materials, to readiness talking points that bankers could use in working with customers so end customer focus in this translation of materials. And in doing that to a career stop along the way, and working in education technology and gaining much more close experience working directly with customers. Similarly worked at an ad agency on some key problems as the U.S. Went through kind of the first financial crisis back in 2008 and ultimately landed at Wells Fargo with an opportunity to help run a campaign and a campaign and social media.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
And my skills that were of interest were really the fact that I had launched campaigns before. And that I understood, again, how to reach the customer and how to plan for it because I think that was critically important as well. Wells was one of the earliest brands to have gotten into social media and to have moved from we're going to post job openings to we're really going to talk about banking. So my tenure on the team going on just past eight years actually and I'll tell you a lot of people, one of the first questions they ask me is why should I follow my bank or any bank in social media? And we always have a story of your customer, cause it's a great way to get customer updates and it's a great way to connect with the brand. But I think a lot of brands are using platforms today creatively really connect with topics of interest to anyone as you go through life stages. And essentially as you challenge yourself as you age with maybe needing more sophisticated banking products. So Wells tries tell that story in a really lighthearted manner. It's really exciting to be at the forefront of that. And again, I think the key is they really keep the customer first in mind, something that's been a continuous tenant throughout my journey.
 
George Kamide:
Cool, interesting story.
 
Ashley Stone:
That's beautiful. I love, I love the ability to tell stories on social media because that's how people are engaging with content. You are also a board member of social media.org for the benefit of our listeners. Can you describe the organization's mission?
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Certainly socialmedia.org, I would say is pretty similar to a trade organization in which they're trying to tap into the best minds through a paid structure of brands and individuals to talk about a specific functional area. Again, that is growing the way in which we connect with customers. So socialmedia.org includes many of the top sort of fortune 100, 500, 1,000 international brands and provides a collaborative vehicle for conversation. All conversation is kept confidential, specific to what the brands have said. So it's an interesting challenge as well in identifying how you might source information from a peer who knows a lot about you and with whom you want to be careful about how much you give up regarding your own personal situation or your company's situation, if you will. So it's a, it's a great organization through which we have a structure to share in person and digitally on key topics to advance social media and our reach of customers.
 
George Kamide:
Yeah, I think it's we, you know, as you know, we had talked with Mark Sternberg of brand innovators, and similarly I think that peer to peer information sharing is very valuable. And certainly something I had not seen before we attended our first summit, which was to just see open competitors, essentially discussing pitfalls strategies, challenges, which was also very refreshing. I sort of was dumbfounded at one point because I think Hilton and Marriott were on the same panel. And I was like, I can't believe you're saying this in front of one another, or people here taking notes, but you know, all to the good it's sort of the rising tide lifts all boats.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Correct.
 
George Kamide:
So returning back to this idea of security, which you highlighted from a business operations perspective how do you, you and your team from the customer experience side, think about security either on social or, or other digital channels. And the follow up question will be, how has that mindset changed with the shift to remote work? I'm sure that offers some infrastructure challenges, but first interested in the security aspect from your side and then how that has adapted.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
I think there are three things I think about when we're talking about security and sort of how myself, how I approach managing my team here. So there's personal security. Am I set up physically in a way to ensure that I'm abiding by the operational structure that is going to provide safety and safety is protection of course, of my brand, as well as maybe my personal credentials. So I'm always curious about that, but I want to think about it as well, how this impacts my team, my team works in very different structures in some cases than I do physical workspaces. And then we can't ignore the fact that we are a team leading global social conversation for Wells Fargo.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So we're reading about customers and their security issues every single day. So we try to think personal, but then on behalf of the brand, and then at the end of the day, much more importantly on behalf of our customers. I think the key that we set up our, it goes back to the way I answered the question earlier about the Chorus outage, which is you've got to set up the right infrastructure in place and you have to review it. You know, this is the beauty of social conversation is it's not one and done it's one and keep doing every minute of the day because social conversation, changes and evolves. So you have to take the same approach, I think, to security and your governance. And thankfully, we've committed to that. We have a big team on behalf of Wells Fargo for which we've actually got two people in charge of governance across everything we do.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So they have a stated process they've managed to it. It helps me ensure that at least for those three initial elements, we are all set up to be doing the best that we can. And if we identify a security breach, we know exactly how to report it, how to troubleshoot it in real time. What's changed I think to working remotely is we had to set up a few members of my global team for the first time ever to work from home. So that was really interesting because one of the conversations I had to go through with them was here's how you used to do your job when you sat in an office, here's how now you're doing your job when you sit at home, you don't have two monitors. You don't have, you know, the telephone that you can be dialing into the U S about a problem.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
You may be using your personal phone to do Zoom calls or Facebook messenger. Cause that's the only way we can get in touch. So I had to really talk to them about security and then I had to go the same exercise with my entire team, like think about the impact of the customer too, because now all of a sudden, you know, the customer may be faced with a very different digital connection than they were used to previously. And again, for a population that walked into a branch and deposited a check and you can't do that now they're going to ask questions about security. That might not mean something to us, but we really have to step into their shoes, understand their context. So I think that's the biggest thing that shifted for us is going beyond what had been our emotional construct around security. Cause like, you know, that bubble has burst in a very different way from what customers are experiencing today.
 
George Kamide:
Okay. Yeah. I think it just raises the point that while a lot of businesses were working on these continuity plans, that at the core, and we had just spoken with somebody else about this - underlying the technology is making sure the human element is clear both from my work culture standpoint, but also just understanding like it's not just as easy as like flip a switch, everyone use Zoom, like there's kind of a new way to communicate. There are new pressures, like you can't stand up and move around as if you were in a conference room and it was just, you know, shouting into a Polycomm. So yeah, that's good to see that there was still a very strong focus on the, on the human process because ultimately technology is just either an enhancement or an impediment of those processes.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Right.
 
George Kamide:
Cool. I'll turn it over to Ashley for the next question. I'm taking notes here because I have another one another question in mind.
 
Ashley Stone:
So we were talking about communication channels, like Zoom or maybe messenger to talk on video. And I think we're all getting creative, whether it's with our coworkers or for personal connection, I'm using video calls with our social distances. Do you have any favorite video conferencing stories to share?
 
Jennifer Heyman:
I do. I have one this might age me a little bit, but in light of the fact that, you know, we're nearing summer we should find ways to celebrate. Summer's a great time of change for us. When we embrace the outside, we embrace the outdoors so many years ago, having grown up in Chicago, I had the opportunity to attend a summer camp in Northern Wisconsin. It was a girl's only summer camp, I think about 400 campers. And, you know, we've had the benefit of social media to connect us and we've had reunions, but one of the things that's been so unique about summer camp for me, again, what the secret sauce was that we used to love doing campfires and like singing songs. And we published song books. So we actually had a summer camp songbook reunion for campers from the seventies and eighties, only for this camp.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
And we had about 90 people join on a Saturday afternoon, a couple of weeks ago. And we just, you know, we said, this is two hours. You can come when you want, you can leave when you want take what you get out of it. Don't worry about the rest we organized in advance, like what songs we wanted to sing. We shared the song book and it was just, it was unbelievable. The personal stories and the connections, you know that from this and just the meaning of like, Oh my God, these people were, you know, my idols as a kid and everyone kept saying the same thing. I idolized so many of you, I can't believe you're all on this call together. And there were funny stories that came up. And it was really just amazing, but I'll, I'll close with like, I think what my friends would say the most unique contribution that I made to the group and everyone introduced themselves or made some contribution is I had a very close friend in childhood who opted not to send her own daughter to this camp and hasn't really stayed in touch.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
And I just invited her along for the ride, just sort of hoping that she would join. And she joined and she didn't let me know that she joined until she spoke up and said something. And I remarked with, Oh my God, you're on this call. And all my girlfriends were like, you idolized her. I said, well, she was such the center point of that experience for me. So I think those are the kinds of things we remember. That's what we'll take away from this. You know, I, I, I've seen two, so many great examples of the drive by birthday parties. And as someone who's birthday is rapidly approaching and I will be celebrating in quarantine. Like I would love nothing more for 15 of my friends drive down the street in San Francisco, you know, honking away that it's my birthday next Friday.
 
George Kamide:
Yes, we celebrate, we recently celebrated a Zoom birthday, you know, with the kids screaming, happy birthday and singing it through. And yeah, in some ways it's very much the benefit that we have these technologies now that we could do this, you know, it would be much harder. Maybe in the mid-nineties, just from bandwidth wise, for sure. You'd just have to get on the phone, but so for 90, so this is by far the most entertaining video conference story we've heard for these, for these 90 people, was this like a Zoom call. So you had like the mega Brady bunch tile effect. Wow. That is impressive.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
They like preplanned the moderation and facilitation. So these two, yes. These, these two women a year younger than me, like planned it entirely. They had a whole, you know, approach like, okay, if there are women on the call, I think there were a couple of women who started out maybe as campers in the very late sixties. So they introduce themselves first and they had, they just say it was really well organized. It didn't get out of control. We had five different people lead songs, which was pretty amazing. And it was like, okay, Suzanne's leading this one. We're muting everyone else, Suzanne, you know, you've got this. And
 
George Kamide:
The muting coordination would be key at that level because 90 open mics on the same time with dogs and kids and cars and whatever going on in the background would be it'd be a little bit much, but that's, that is a, that's probably better than most companies are able to pull off at this point in terms of black belt Zoom skills. So good on them. Yeah, that's great. Oh, so I wanted to come back to my question again, I'll ask it in, in two parts, my looking forward to kind of like a post COVID world, because a lot of our customers are now they're sort of out of panic in Virginia, at least I think in San Francisco very much so we're in the sort of weeks, eight and 10 of this we're, we're past the immediate business continuity concern and very much at what does a Q4 look like?
 
George Kamide:
I think some of our customers are very critically looking at these new technologies as a competitive advantage. You know, if I, if I have collaboration tools in place, does that make my team more productive than my rivals, et cetera. So to that end can you speak to how Well's evaluates like new channels? Like how do you decide when to either you need a dedicated Twitter handle for X, Y, and Z, or is there a population you're trying to reach on a different channel? I ask because we have some regulated businesses that have, for example, a lot of investors in China, or they have a lot of dealings with Hong Kong. So they may be small investment firms by, you know, Wells Fargo standards, but they are actually looking to use WeChat because it's like a very business critical concern. We have others who have a lot of customers in Latin America. So WhatsApp is a concern. I was just curious as to how, what is the process in vetting the channel readiness?
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Hopefully, most big brands like Wells Fargo already had a vetting process in place long before COVID I think if anything, the uncertainty of the environment that we're facing right now lends credibility. If we can prove that we can securely connect with people through other channels. And I think without question, anyone actively publishing in social right now can state that social conversation has gone through the roof. So significant growth rates. I mean, brands are saying as much as 200%, if not more increase in overall mentions in social, and then, you know, rates up to easily, a hundred percent greater in how many replies you're doing with the same resources. So I hope that companies like ours continue to move opportunities forward based on demonstrated examples of customer success and connection through the coronavirus. I think the key thing I'm seeing as well is not so much in growth in specialized branding but greater commitment to streams of conversation, public published through existing channels.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
I know it's something we've been doing a lot more of examples like showcasing a lot more of our internal emails on LinkedIn, not something we would previously have done before as a thought leadership tool from our C-suite, but something that we think is, is working. And it's not just working for us, it's working for other brands. I think additionally, I saw some, I just saw an announcement this morning that one of the large social media management tools has now announced it's integrating Tik Tok. So that will open the door for brands that are customers of that tool to now be able to see Tik Tok conversations in a standardized way in which they could compare against other performance metrics. So is that going to increase the number of brands using Tik Tok very possibly, I think we've already seen a lot of people migrate to Tik Tok for pure content during coronavirus, because that's been such an effective way to communicate with that younger audience.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
And I think with messaging platforms too, I mean, I think the, the Facebook's of the world, you know, specific to messenger for a second, I've really benefited from understanding and learning the metrics off of all the security and the safety they've put around good content. And in fact, I've read some things that I didn't look into deeply that Facebook alone had invested significant resources in ensuring that all their coronavirus content was accurate, was real news, et cetera. So all of those steps benefit security put into a platform like WhatsApp to facilitate future conversation. So the challenge really is for the brands to come forward to say, Hey, we operated in this different way successfully. Let's make sure we now morph that into the tools that our customers are telling us and demonstrating to us they want to use. So that would be the best outcome.
 
George Kamide:
Okay. And that, that does go part of the way in answering my last question here, which is whether it's socialmedia.org your peers at Brand Innovators or, or, or just in financial services, what advice would you give to them during this time to digital marketing professionals, to, you know, it can be everything from comfort advice to professional advice.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So I think it's kind of a mix of both. I think it's, you really have to put your customer first with everything that you do right now. You really have to think about them. What, what are they saying? What are they doing? What is their context? Cause remember, you might push out a message that you think will land in a certain way, whereas your customer might interpret it and, or prioritize that if you will, into their overall emotional construct very differently. So I think it's really important to take that into account. I think it's okay as well to say, we're going to be slower. We're going to say less. We're going to be okay with being more reactive versus more proactive. I think this is one of the key questions brands struggle with all the time is how much should I be saying? And you know, is silence really a bad thing right now? Do I need some press better than no press? So I think you have to think about your customer and weave those two together and make sure you have the arm able to be as reactive as possible when the customer does raise their hand.
 
George Kamide:
I think that's a good point, we saw a lot in those first heady days of March, in terms of brands, trying to have something to say about Coronavirus, which was, I would say 90% of the time, not what anyone wanted to hear. Right. So that's a, that's a good point about listening rather than speaking,
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Right. We have to move from that ubiquitous, you know, we're here to help message to how are we going to get you forward? How are we going to be there when you take your first steps or, you know, again, as towns and communities continue to evolve that. So it is one of the interesting challenges for a bank too, because I think we've seen so much conversation specific to close your branches, they're not safe places with respect to the transmission of the virus to now open your branch because we need to get back to business as usual. So a real dichotomy in how people think, and I believe our thoughtfulness and evaluation from an operational standpoint allowed us to decide, you know, here's where we are going to keep our branches open. Here's where we're going to use a drive through structure. Here's where we're going to rely on ATM and mobile banking.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
So I feel like we've been very thoughtful as to when the gamut of ideas that we believe have some staying power. But certainly we, we are working to open up more branches when we feel like that is safe within our footprint.
 
George Kamide:
Cool. Well, I want to thank you very much for the time. I know you're very busy and working across multiple time zones. Thank you very much for the conversation.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Thank you so much, George and Ashley, it was really great to connect with you guys and I hope you stay safe. And I look forward to doing this sometime in the future.
 
George Kamide:
Great.
 
Ashley Stone:
Thanks for joining.
 
Jennifer Heyman:
Thanks you guys. Bye now.